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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2010 1:53:25 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
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quote:
But on one hand, if I covered in church and a woman approached me about how she felt bothered or whatever about it, don't I have the responsibility of explaining to her in a Christ-like manner why I feel compelled to cover, but that does not mean it's a poor reflection of others' not covering?
FTR, I did not say anything to imply that she should cover, and acknowledged that there are different interpretations. That did not lessen this particular woman's antagonism. She wasn't willing to accept different interpretations--she wanted to argue me out of covering. And all I wanted was to get back into the sanctuary and hear the sermon, so I really didn't engage her on it anyway.
It's not a problem, per say. However, having to add long disclaimers to everything we say in the hopes of tiptoing around peoples individual hangups makes genuine conversation and clarity very difficult.
_____________________________
 Moo
"Yup, I'm in agreement with Maggie here on all of this" Manda, April 2010
Global Tantrum Crisis
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2010 5:12:29 PM
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theprincessbuttercup
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quote:
It's not a problem, per say. However, having to add long disclaimers to everything we say in the hopes of tiptoing around peoples individual hangups makes genuine conversation and clarity very difficult.
I do not cover at this time, but I was curious about it, so I have been reading this thread and the other one. I have never known anyone who covered, so I had never really thought about it. But I do believe that if God has impressed covering on your heart, you should be able to do so without nosies bugging you about it. I quoted the above post portion because it struck me that the wisdom there could apply to many many things - not just covering. I hope it's okay that I posted here. I like to learn things.
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2010 5:16:40 PM
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Leela_3
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
[she wanted to argue me out of covering.
Okay well this lady seems to have a problem anyway and headcovering was probably the topic of the week, who knows. There's always going to be people out there who are like that, but that's typically not what goes on. Usually what happens is people feel uncomfortable and guilty, at least that's what I've been told.
I work with a lady who goes to a Baptist church and when I talked to her about headcovering, she told me that doing that seemed cult-like  .
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2010 5:38:56 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
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I would have asked her why and what her take was on 1 Cor 11, and early Christian practice, and current practice of Christians outside America. It could have been a really interesting conversation. 
For a lot of different issues, many people seem to have trouble understanding that overlap of particular belief does not mean that *that* belief is cultic. Just that cultish people have taken it on.
My family was in a cult that believed in headcovering. They believed many things that are Scriptural individually, but ultimately they were a spiritually abusive cult. A lot of people who left couldn't make that distinction and threw *everything* out when they left, including Jesus.  IMO what happened was that this group took valid Scriptural principals and commands, twisted them according to the whim of the leadership, and made them an unbearable burden. But the original principals are no less Biblical because of that. It was sinful humanity that was burdensome, not the principals.
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Moo
"Yup, I'm in agreement with Maggie here on all of this" Manda, April 2010
Global Tantrum Crisis
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2010 6:11:00 PM
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HomeSpunLady
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I don't cover all the time. I've only felt I need to cover at certain times, so that's when I do. I'm sure everyone at my church has figured out when I cover and why I cover. No one has said anything about it. If anyone is offended, well that's on them. I'm doing what the Lord has told me to do, with the blessing of my husband.
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Kathryn
Just Me
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 4/26/2010 12:19:22 AM
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Leela_3
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There is a small chapel outside of the main worshiping space where it's easier to go for quiet and undisturbed prayer. This has been a good place to cover because I think it's obvious to people what I am doing and to not be disturbed. That part I see outlined in the Bible. Is there anything in the Bible that states you should over ALL the time?
I probably could have asked her why she thought what she did. At one time I went to see a lady that we know mutually and when I mentioned the huge hair thread that was in debate a while ago, and how there seemed to be a lot of debate dictating that women are supposed to have long hair and not cut it, her eyes went huge and then she asked me why I was dabbling in cult websites  She is also Baptist.
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 4/26/2010 6:04:32 AM
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HomeSpunLady
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I think some women cover all the time in following this reasoning: We are to cover when we pray or prophesy, and we are to pray without ceasing, soooo, if we are praying all the time, we need to cover all the time. Which I can see the point. I cover, too, as a reminder that the Lord is watching me and to maintain my self control in situations. But that's just me, I added that. But it works for me. It's a reminder to myself.
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Kathryn
Just Me
<---That's ME running!
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 4/26/2010 4:07:58 PM
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Leela_3
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I find that a little literal of an interpretation...but to each their own.
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 4/26/2010 5:16:48 PM
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W.O.F.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lea_3
I find that a little literal of an interpretation...but to each their own.
Just asking...but what is wrong with literally interpreting the Scripture...after all it is by literally interpreting it that we can assume it is up to each woman to make up her own mind on this matter.....
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 4/26/2010 11:32:00 PM
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Leela_3
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I would like to meet a person who literally, prays without ceasing. As in, not stopping for anything, because that would be a literal interpretation.
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2010 8:26:44 AM
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W.O.F.
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Matthew Henry comments on that verse like this:
" The way to rejoice evermore is to pray without ceasing. We should rejoice more if we prayed more. We should keep up stated times for prayer, and continue instant in prayer. We should pray always, and not faint: pray without weariness, and continue in prayer, till we come to that world where prayer shall be swallowed up in praise. The meaning is not that men should do nothing but pray, but that nothing else we do should hinder prayer in its proper season. Prayer will help forward and not hinder all other lawful business, and every good work."
and I have known people who literally do pray without ceasing....
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2010 12:15:54 PM
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Tinkerbell_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lea_3
quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
Is that sort of reaction *my* fault, or something the other woman needs to deal with?
quote:
ORIGINAL: pink..
I don't cover often. We don't cease to obey our convictions just because it may cause others to examine their own convictions.
I am not saying that it's a matter of fault! But on one hand, if I covered in church and a woman approached me about how she felt bothered or whatever about it, don't I have the responsibility of explaining to her in a Christ-like manner why I feel compelled to cover, but that does not mean it's a poor reflection of others' not covering? I think what becomes problematic here is that we can get so caught up in defending ourselves instead of explaining the nuts and bolts and then leaving the ultimate responsibility of how to cope with it to the other person. I can recall a time where I used to work with young Muslim women and I asked about their headcoverings and they simply explained to me that it was between them and God, and not about comparing themselves to others or trying to make others feel a certain way. She stressed that it had to do with what she wanted to demonstrate to God, and ultimately everyone has to figure that out for themselves. Why it would be a problem for a Christian to take that same approach, I'm not sure.
There are many things that we as Christians are convicted about that other Chrisitans are not. I am personally convicted of not eating pork. I don't think people who eat pork are bad, nor do I expect the rest of the world to agree that pork is bad and stop eating it.
It's just for me, I feel G-d has lead me to not eat it. *shrug*
It's fairly simple. Now...if I were to go to you and say, "You shouldn't eat pork; that's wrong." and condemn you for it that would be wrong on my part.
I'll be honest; when I first started reading about head coverings I thought, 'huh...that's a good point.' so I prayed about it. I personally do not feel lead to cover my head but I completely understand the women who are and am very proud they are that obedient to the Holy Spirit.
If my personal convictions cause you to question your own, then you need to simply pray about it. I cannot control how others react to how G-d has told me to live my life. If G-d leads you in the same direction, wonderful! If not, then so be it and we can go on living our own lives with our own convictions.
However...if you (generally speaking) feel a tug by the Holy Spirit, then by all means, act upon it even if it is just to question your own convictions. That alone may be what He wants you to do and not necessarily change how you live.
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2010 12:17:57 PM
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W.O.F.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
There are many things that we as Christians are convicted about that other Chrisitans are not. I am personally convicted of not eating pork. I don't think people who eat pork are bad, nor do I expect the rest of the world to agree that pork is bad and stop eating it.
It's just for me, I feel G-d has lead me to not eat it. *shrug*
It's fairly simple. Now...if I were to go to you and say, "You shouldn't eat pork; that's wrong." and condemn you for it that would be wrong on my part.
I'll be honest; when I first started reading about head coverings I thought, 'huh...that's a good point.' so I prayed about it. I personally do not feel lead to cover my head but I completely understand the women who are and am very proud they are that obedient to the Holy Spirit.
If my personal convictions cause you to question your own, then you need to simply pray about it. I cannot control how others react to how G-d has told me to live my life. If G-d leads you in the same direction, wonderful! If not, then so be it and we can go on living our own lives with our own convictions.
However...if you (generally speaking) feel a tug by the Holy Spirit, then by all means, act upon it even if it is just to question your own convictions. That alone may be what He wants you to do and not necessarily change how you live.
Well said.
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2010 1:07:03 PM
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hispen
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In light of this discussion, can someone please help me get clarity on the very last verse in the passage
Thanks!
Now if anyone is disposed to be argumentative and contentious about this, we hold to and recognize no other custom [in worship] than this, nor do the churches of God generally. I Corinthians 11:16 AMP
But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God. I Corinthians 11:16 KJV
If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God. I Corinthians 11:16 KJV
_____________________________
Come and hear, all ye that fear God, and I will declare what he hath done for my soul. Psalm 66:16
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2010 1:21:22 PM
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W.O.F.
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Hispen,
there are two different lines of thought on that verse...
One is that to promote contention (or fighting) has not place within the church over something that has already been clearly left up to the conscience of the individual.
The other is, that at that time, there WAS no other practice...women covered in the synagogues, and Christian meetings, of that time.
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 4/30/2010 7:56:34 AM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 487
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God. I Corinthians 11:16 KJV
If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God. I Corinthians 11:16 KJV
I think it's interesting that gramatically, neither one is saying "we don't cover".
In the first, the way it's translated, "we have no such custom" is pointing to being contentious. In the second, it's saying that there is nothing to be contentious about because there is no other practice in the church to point to as an argument against covering.
EXACTLY!!!!
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 7/8/2010 3:10:44 PM
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ForgivenGrace
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I don't wear a head covering nor do I plan to anytime soon. But than my hair is short a little too short for some
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You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. ~Dr. Seuss
Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase.-Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 7/9/2010 10:28:02 AM
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stolar1962
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I find it interesting that this thread has come back to life several times over the years. I'm not going to read through all the posts, so I'm not sure if this angle has been brought up.
Coming from a Plymouth Brethren background, i am acquainted with the issue. But then there are different flavors there too, from it's mandatory to optional. Even within the assemblies i've, there are women who cover their heads and women who don't.
I think part of the issue is Paul was speaking to an audience already familiar with the custom and didn't feel the need to be more specific. He was also dealing with concepts that western women find offensive, the idea of submission when we are all about equality. Men and women have confused the idea of submission with that of subjection, inferiority and inequality.
When you look at the context of 1 Corinthians, one of the overall themes was about order and doing things properly. the church itself was in disarray and Paul was writing to explain to them the way things should be.
To the Corinthians.. he insists that women are to be silent in the assembly and covered, yet he seems to contradict that when he writes to Timothy that women and men are to lift up there hands in prayer when they are together, indicating they are free to express themselves verbally.
We had a lot of new believers come into our church several years ago and such questions were raised. The elders studied the issues and suggested the following guidelines.
1) Women should have their heads covered in the assembly as it is a symbol of her husbands' authority and ultimately of God's.
2) If a woman wishes to verbally participate in the meeting, ei, share a testimony, etc. then she should have her head covered. If she does not wish to participate, then she doesn't need to cover her head.
3) The biblical evidence is women were free to vocally participate in the meetings in terms of prayer, praise, worship and testimony (ie-- exercise their gifts to the benefit of the assembly), but were restricted in the areas of teaching and preaching and were not to be in authority over men.
4) The issue appears indicative of God's order and design for the functioning of the church. It is not indicative of our standing before Him in terms of salvation where we are all considered equal.
I know the bulk of the discussion has revolved around the specifics of the passage, but I think it makes more sense when the context of the book is also taken into consideration. God wants things done decently and in order and that wasn't happening in Corinth. Hence, Paul told the ladies to cover up and shut up. It could be that some of them were stepping out of the bounds of their ministries and trying to run things, which added to the confusion going on. Who really knows, as Paul didn't come and say why he issued the directives he did.
_____________________________
IN His Grip,
Steve
Homepage = Bible School Dropout
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 7/21/2010 4:23:07 PM
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Teaching_The_Way
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According to scripture a woman long hair is her covering and a sign of her authority
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Our opinions must line up with Gods Holy Words!
http://www.teachingtheway.org/
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2010 8:20:07 AM
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W.O.F.
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Teaching the way...that is how some interpret it...but it is not the only thing that is listed as her covering.
The two words used are different...the one word refers to hair, the other to an actual physical covering.
HOWEVER...it is up to each person to pray and follow God's leading on what they are to use/do.
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 7/30/2010 8:09:41 PM
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catholicwife
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I just stumbled upon this thread while looking up more info on head covering. I'm actually one of the minority of Catholic women who wear head coverings in church... I was drawn to the practice after a discussion with a friend of mine a few months ago. I wear a lace mantilla with a small comb sewn underneath to keep it in place.
One of the frustrations that I'm having is that ALL Catholic women used to wear a head covering in church up to about 40 years ago. All throughout the centuries, women wore veils--some in church only but many outside of church as well. It's interesting to see that this is the first time in the history of Christianity that women haven't worn head coverings...
If anyone is interested in lace mantillas, I make my own at VeilsbyLily.com. Longer mantillas are great for either draping over the shoulders (the sewn-in comb is very useful!) or for tying behind the neck.
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Blogging at http://thecatholicwife.blogspot.com. Find me on Facebook!
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RE: Head Covering - One Stop Thread - 7/31/2010 2:50:46 PM
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HomeSpunLady
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Catholicwife, that is an interesting observation. I wonder why that is. Also, something else I've noticed, why is it, in 'modern' cultures, women cut their hair? Granted, I've cut my hair many times, and short too, but it seems like when societies, as a whole, get more liberal, ladies hair gets shorter.
_____________________________
Kathryn
Just Me
<---That's ME running!
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