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RE: Word of Faith/Prosperity One Stop Thread - 8/11/2010 1:39:49 AM
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themoodyexperience
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Word of Faith/Prosperity and Dominionism joining forces? It was a matter of time.
The two great apostacies together at last!
The Great Outpouring of Wealth
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RE: Word of Faith/Prosperity One Stop Thread - 8/11/2010 9:15:51 AM
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laura...
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quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
Word of Faith/Prosperity and Dominionism joining forces? It was a matter of time.
The two great apostacies together at last!
The Great Outpouring of Wealth
From link:
quote:
All nine of the components of GAN [Global Apostolic Network, ed.] are on my heart, but especially those related to wealth and wealth transfer. I am in touch with 17 potential wealth transfer brokers, some of them expecting release momentarily. It is hard to comprehend, but some of them go to multiple millions, billions, and more. My task is to prepare a high integrity infrastructure for distributing these funds when they begin to flow. Zion Apostolic Network and The Hamilton Group are in place as agencies to carry this out. Our motto is “Sophisticated Philanthropy for Apostolic Distribution.”
That sounds very similar to emails I get all the time. Are these people training in Nigeria?
_____________________________
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith... ...so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. Hebrew 12:3-4
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RE: Word of Faith/Prosperity One Stop Thread - 8/11/2010 9:59:36 AM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 944
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quote:
ORIGINAL: laura...
That sounds very similar to emails I get all the time. Are these people training in Nigeria?
No, I'd trust a Nigerian prince before I'd trust these whack-a-doos.
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"Ohmigosh a Nelson twin just waved at me!!!!" - Hadassah
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RE: Word of Faith/Prosperity One Stop Thread - 8/11/2010 5:02:32 PM
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crankius
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Someone the other day told me about this amazing pastor in Africa, with millions coming to hear his messages, and many being healed, and even one being raised from the dead...this person wanted me to look him up.
Christ For All Nations, Reinhard Bonnke
I went to some youtube videos of his and they make me want to weep for the lost.
What will happen to all those people who go home and are not healed? What will happen to their understanding of Christ when their baby dies or they get cancer or their family gets an infection?
I truly HATE the health, wealth, and prosperity gospel. It is utter vomit.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/28/2010 7:50:45 PM
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jkibler
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Why are so many people opposed to the Word of Faith message when Paul himself told us in Romans 10:8 that what he preached was the Word of Faith?
Word of faith is believing that God will do for us just what He has promised us. God never wants us to be poor or sick. We have a wonderful Heavenly Father who only want the very best for us and Jesus came that we might have an abundant life which is God's intention for us.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/28/2010 8:01:20 PM
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crankius
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How big was Jesus' home? How much did He make a year?
How did following Christ give earthly profit to any of the Apostles?
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Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/28/2010 8:04:12 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
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crankius, seriously, don't you know Jesus was a rich man? Not just being God and all, but rich in human terms. Yes, see, that's why he needed Judas to keep the coffers, he had so much money, and the robe that the soldiers cast lots on wasn't just a unique indigenous design, it was a wealthy man's outfit.
 
I heard that first hand from the pulpit of a church we left. Such a shame. 
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"Yup, I'm in agreement with Maggie here on all of this" Manda, April 2010
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/28/2010 8:26:54 PM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 944
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkibler
Why are so many people opposed to the Word of Faith message when Paul himself told us in Romans 10:8 that what he preached was the Word of Faith?
Word of faith is believing that God will do for us just what He has promised us. God never wants us to be poor or sick. We have a wonderful Heavenly Father who only want the very best for us and Jesus came that we might have an abundant life which is God's intention for us.
Paul didn't twist this to make himself rich like most WOF wolves today. WOFers also believe that Jesus had to go through torment in 'hell' for us and that His dying on the cross wasn't enough. They also believe that people who are sick that pray and don't get healed don't have enough faith. Think about it, if it was God's will for Christians to be rich, wouldn't they all be? And IMO, the abundant life Jesus mentions means 'eternal' and not 'health and wealth' that these charlatans peddle.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/28/2010 8:52:07 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
God never wants us to be poor or sick.
Please quote Scripture to back up this statement.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/28/2010 9:17:05 PM
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themoodyexperience
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
crankius, seriously, don't you know Jesus was a rich man? Not just being God and all, but rich in human terms. Yes, see, that's why he needed Judas to keep the coffers, he had so much money, and the robe that the soldiers cast lots on wasn't just a unique indigenous design, it was a wealthy man's outfit.
I heard that first hand from the pulpit of a church we left. Such a shame.
I read Creflo Dollar (yes, his real name) saying that in an AJC article a few years back. Quick sickening.
When I become a WOF 'preacher' I'll be Baron Von Moneybags.
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"Ohmigosh a Nelson twin just waved at me!!!!" - Hadassah
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/28/2010 9:23:49 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
When I become a WOF 'preacher' I'll be Baron Von Moneybags.
Name... Too... Compelling! Quickly, tell me where I can sow my $1000 seed of faith!
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/28/2010 9:29:01 PM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 944
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
When I become a WOF 'preacher' I'll be Baron Von Moneybags.
Name... Too... Compelling! Quickly, tell me where I can sow my $1000 seed of faith!
Well since I'll be a baron, it'll have to be one of Todd Coontz's $1000 'BATTLE SEEDS'!
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"Ohmigosh a Nelson twin just waved at me!!!!" - Hadassah
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/28/2010 10:18:37 PM
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StephK
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For those who have facebook this guy has a whole lot of good videos about the WOF'ers like this:
$1,000 dollar vow of faith ..BIG DEAL! [HQ]
Walter Martin's take on things:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbFqvgrAlrk
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"Our God is not to be worshipped as one among many good and true beings, but as God alone; and his gospel is not to be preached as one of several systems, but as the one sole way of salvation." - C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/29/2010 10:44:26 PM
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Sonrise
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
God never wants us to be poor or sick.
Please quote Scripture to back up this statement.
Jkibler, I believe this request was for you. I too am curious to see scripture that says God wants us to be rich and without sickness.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/29/2010 11:28:27 PM
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Law-n-Gospel
Posts: 623
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkibler
Why are so many people opposed to the Word of Faith message when Paul himself told us in Romans 10:8 that what he preached was the Word of Faith?
Word of faith is believing that God will do for us just what He has promised us. God never wants us to be poor or sick. We have a wonderful Heavenly Father who only want the very best for us and Jesus came that we might have an abundant life which is God's intention for us.
This must be crushing news to Chinese christians, North Korean christians, and any other christian that is not American and knows true persecution.. Get out of your American mindset, or whatever Western country you may be from, Christ said His followers would suffer as He did. We are not above Him.
_____________________________
The Westminster confession
If you want to make men angry preach The Law, if you want to make them furious, preach Grace.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/30/2010 9:00:36 AM
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Soxfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkibler
God never wants us to be poor or sick.
Scripture please?
quote:
We have a wonderful Heavenly Father who only want the very best for us and Jesus came that we might have an abundant life which is God's intention for us.
Show me the Scripture that says "abundant life" equates to earthly wealth and perfect health.
_____________________________
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 12/23/2010 12:01:12 AM
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LifeLoveSong
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All I want to know is why Jesus didn't make anyone sick while on Earth. I also want to know why no one is sick in heaven. And finally I want to know why in the world Jesus would tell us to pray that His will (includes no sickness) would be done on earth as it is (no sickness) in heaven.
The people on this thread really need to correct Jesus.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 12/23/2010 12:30:52 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 3193
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quote:
All I want to know is why Jesus didn't make anyone sick while on Earth.
Well, God sure made plenty of people sick. Maybe not while Jesus was on earth, but that's far from the whole biblical story. God sent plagues among Israel and killed thousands of people.
quote:
I also want to know why no one is sick in heaven.
Easy. Sickness is the result of the fall - the fall is reversed (and then some) in Heaven.
quote:
And finally I want to know why in the world Jesus would tell us to pray that His will (includes no sickness)
Here's where you're wrong. Consider the example pf Paul's thorn. Paul prayed three times that it be removed, and God told him that it was his will that Paul remain afflicted by the thorn.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 12/23/2010 2:15:53 AM
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figmentPez
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LifeLoveSong
All I want to know is why Jesus didn't make anyone sick while on Earth. I also want to know why no one is sick in heaven. And finally I want to know why in the world Jesus would tell us to pray that His will (includes no sickness) would be done on earth as it is (no sickness) in heaven.
The people on this thread really need to correct Jesus.
Your logic leaves a lot to be desired. There is safety from our enemies in heaven, and yet Paul was stoned and beaten for the sake of the Gospel. There is freedom in heaven, yet Paul was imprisoned for the sake of the Gospel. There is rest in heaven, yet Paul spent sleepless nights in the cold for the sake of the Gospel. There are great feasts in heaven, but Paul endured hunger and thirst for the sake of the Gospel. Paul boasts in his weakness, and I pray that I have the faith to do the same.
The prayer that God's will be done on earth, as it is in heaven, is an acknowledgement that all those in heaven obey God, and a desire that all those on earth will obey God as well. It is not saying that earth will be like heaven, because we know that it will not be.
_____________________________
If you don't know who God is, then you can't know what He wants you to do. If your study of scripture focuses on who you are, before or above your study of who God is, then you're doing it wrong.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 12/23/2010 2:57:35 AM
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LifeLoveSong
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
All I want to know is why Jesus didn't make anyone sick while on Earth.
Well, God sure made plenty of people sick. Maybe not while Jesus was on earth, but that's far from the whole biblical story. God sent plagues among Israel and killed thousands of people.
quote:
I also want to know why no one is sick in heaven.
Easy. Sickness is the result of the fall - the fall is reversed (and then some) in Heaven.
quote:
And finally I want to know why in the world Jesus would tell us to pray that His will (includes no sickness)
Here's where you're wrong. Consider the example pf Paul's thorn. Paul prayed three times that it be removed, and God told him that it was his will that Paul remain afflicted by the thorn.
2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.
Learn something here. What was the thorn? It was a messenger - an angel (look it up) of Satan. It was a demon assigned against him. Paul did not need to plead, God's grace was sufficient for Paul to take authority over the demon. Paul's mistake.
Did God kill all those people or did their disobedience kill them? It was NOT Gods will that they should die. They were out of His will and that is why they died.
And yes Jesus did indeed instruct that we should pray that His will (which as you said includes freedom from sickness) would be done here on earth.
But Jesus was Gods perfect will. I noticed you avoided the question. If God was so interested in making everyone sick, why didn't he at least once make someone sick?
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 12/23/2010 3:07:44 AM
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LifeLoveSong
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quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
quote:
ORIGINAL: LifeLoveSong
All I want to know is why Jesus didn't make anyone sick while on Earth. I also want to know why no one is sick in heaven. And finally I want to know why in the world Jesus would tell us to pray that His will (includes no sickness) would be done on earth as it is (no sickness) in heaven.
The people on this thread really need to correct Jesus.
Your logic leaves a lot to be desired. There is safety from our enemies in heaven, and yet Paul was stoned and beaten for the sake of the Gospel. There is freedom in heaven, yet Paul was imprisoned for the sake of the Gospel. There is rest in heaven, yet Paul spent sleepless nights in the cold for the sake of the Gospel. There are great feasts in heaven, but Paul endured hunger and thirst for the sake of the Gospel. Paul boasts in his weakness, and I pray that I have the faith to do the same.
The prayer that God's will be done on earth, as it is in heaven, is an acknowledgement that all those in heaven obey God, and a desire that all those on earth will obey God as well. It is not saying that earth will be like heaven, because we know that it will not be.
We come from two different view points. I am basing my argument on Jesus and you are basing yours on Paul. Now I greatly admire Paul, but it's called Christianity for a reason. And do remember that Jesus walked and ministered as a man. Paul was good but Romans and Corinthians details his shortcomings. Being stoned and beaten is not sickness. Jesus was never sick while on earth. He never missed a meal. He never spent a sleepless night in the cold.
Yes we will suffer for the sake of the Gospel, but Gods provision will always be there. The same Jesus that always healed people has not changed.
My logic doesn't line up with yours because it is based on Jesus not Paul. Paul would agree with me, don't you think?.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 12/23/2010 3:37:15 AM
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figmentPez
Posts: 1262
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LifeLoveSong
We come from two different view points. I am basing my argument on Jesus and you are basing yours on Paul. Now I greatly admire Paul, but it's called Christianity for a reason. And do remember that Jesus walked and ministered as a man. Paul was good but Romans and Corinthians details his shortcomings. Being stoned and beaten is not sickness. Jesus was never sick while on earth. He never missed a meal. He never spent a sleepless night in the cold.
Yes we will suffer for the sake of the Gospel, but Gods provision will always be there. The same Jesus that always healed people has not changed.
My logic doesn't line up with yours because it is based on Jesus not Paul. Paul would agree with me, don't you think?.
No, Paul would not agree with you. Paul would agree with me, because he was the one who boasted of his weakness for the sake of CHRIST. This was not shortcoming on his part. He was obedient, he had faith. In fact read Hebrews 11, so many had faith but "did not receive what was promised, because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect."
Being stoned, being hungry, going sleepless, being poor, all are because of this fallen world, as is sickness. There is no difference between God's promises for health and God's promises for protection from our enemies. There is no difference between God's promises of food and God's promises of healing. You are trying to put up a division where scripture makes none.
Your sick and twisted WOF teachings mocks the faith of Paul, and Abel, and Noah, and Abraham, and Sarah, and Isaac, and Moses and so many others named and unnamed. They had faith while awaiting God's promises, so that others would come to the LORD. God had them do without, so that you would know His greatness. Yet now WOF teachers act like whiny little children screaming "now, now, now" unable to see past their wants for the greater good. Unable to see God's work in the lives of others, only concerned about what they can get now, and not what someone else can have if they have the faith to wait.
You also lie about Jesus Christ. He did go without meals, and he did spend nights out in the cold.
Matthew 12:1
At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat.
The edges of the fields were left for the poor to eat from. Jesus and his disciples were poor. They weren't snacking, they were eating from the fields because they didn't have any other food.
Luke 9:58
And Jesus said to him, "The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head."
If you say that Jesus Christ always spent the night in a house, then you deny that He completed prophecy. Jesus spent his time wandering, without a home, spending nights in the cold. Probably long sleepless nights at points.
_____________________________
If you don't know who God is, then you can't know what He wants you to do. If your study of scripture focuses on who you are, before or above your study of who God is, then you're doing it wrong.
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