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RE: joyce meyer - 8/11/2010 1:17:24 PM
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StephK
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It was from when she was on PTL in 2003.
quote:
Meyer embraces the “give-to-get” message espoused by her close friend Oral Roberts. “When I talked with Dr. Roberts today and we talked about this seed-faith thing, he said…when you give you get a receipt in heaven that when you have a need you can then go with your receipt and say ‘You see, God, I have got my receipt from my sowing and now I have a need and I’m cashing in my receipt.’”28
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Stephanie
"Our God is not to be worshipped as one among many good and true beings, but as God alone; and his gospel is not to be preached as one of several systems, but as the one sole way of salvation." - C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: joyce meyer - 8/11/2010 2:31:04 PM
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Soxfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
It was from when she was on PTL in 2003.
quote:
Meyer embraces the “give-to-get” message espoused by her close friend Oral Roberts. “When I talked with Dr. Roberts today and we talked about this seed-faith thing, he said…when you give you get a receipt in heaven that when you have a need you can then go with your receipt and say ‘You see, God, I have got my receipt from my sowing and now I have a need and I’m cashing in my receipt.’”28
Typical line from the leaders of the WoF cult.
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If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you
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RE: joyce meyer - 8/27/2010 3:12:41 PM
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KenJacobsen
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That quote above is a great example of how false and perverted the WOF doctrine that Meyer teaches is.
It's the spirit that Meyer and the WOF brood brings into their religion: you are not God's servant, instead God is a puppet whose strings you can pull to serve yourself. It makes God from Sovereign Creator into your personal ATM machine. It's quite clear from her teachings that that's exactly how Meyer sees God.
By the way, never forget that this is what Jesus says about wealth and poverty:
“Blessed are you who are poor,
for yours is the kingdom of God."
"But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.” Luke 6: 20, 24
Meyer not only rejects Christ's teachings, she proudly defies them with her very lifestyle.
< Message edited by KenJacobsen -- 8/27/2010 7:21:01 PM >
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for A Closer Look at the Teachings of Joyce Meyer, please see my Wordpress page; http://joycevsjesus.wordpress.com
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RE: joyce meyer - 2/17/2011 2:41:45 PM
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Ruth181
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Just started reading this thread, but I have to ask - what is WOF?
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RE: joyce meyer - 2/17/2011 2:44:40 PM
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StephK
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WOF = Word of Faith
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Stephanie
"Our God is not to be worshipped as one among many good and true beings, but as God alone; and his gospel is not to be preached as one of several systems, but as the one sole way of salvation." - C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: joyce meyer - 2/17/2011 3:11:16 PM
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Ruth181
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Thank you Stephanie. Is that an organized group of some type, like the PTL used to be?
Without reading through 60 pages of posts, can you point me to one or two posts in this thread that summarize why some of you don't like Joyce Meyer? I have listened to her many times, I enjoy her teaching and have not heard her say anything that was off the wall. She was on Larry King and I think she did a good job. She is coming to near where I live this summer and I plan on attending her conference.
Are there any supporters of hers on this thread or should I start another one?
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RE: joyce meyer - 2/17/2011 3:38:17 PM
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rawr.ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ruth181
Thank you Stephanie. Is that an organized group of some type, like the PTL used to be?
Without reading through 60 pages of posts, can you point me to one or two posts in this thread that summarize why some of you don't like Joyce Meyer? I have listened to her many times, I enjoy her teaching and have not heard her say anything that was off the wall. She was on Larry King and I think she did a good job. She is coming to near where I live this summer and I plan on attending her conference.
Are there any supporters of hers on this thread or should I start another one?
Word of Faith is also connected to the "Prosperity Gospel," nicknamed "Name it and Claim it" or "Blab it and Grab it."
It is not an organized group so much as it is a theological philosophy. It supersedes denominations and can be found all throughout Christendom.
Here are a couple early posts to get you started:
http://forums.crosswalk.com/fb.aspx?m=88581
http://forums.crosswalk.com/fb.aspx?m=88607
http://forums.crosswalk.com/fb.aspx?m=735613
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RE: joyce meyer - 2/17/2011 5:04:58 PM
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Ruth181
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
quote:
ORIGINAL: caur
So, what specifically are the false teachings of Joyce Meyer? What is your basis in scripture?
From Joyce Meyer's 1991 booklet The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, an evangelistic work aimed at nonbelievers, she resounds the Word-Faith view of Christ’s atonement:
"During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin. He paid the price there ... no plan was too extreme ... Jesus paid on the cross and in hell” (pg. 35,).
“God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, ‘Let Him go.’ Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus ... He was resurrected from the dead — the first born-again man” (pg. 36, underlining in the original).
“His spirit went to hell because that is where we deserved to go. Remember in the very beginning of this, I said, ‘When you die, only your body dies. The rest of you, your soul and spirit, goes either to heaven or hell’” (ibid.).
“There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell” (ibid.).
“Jesus went to hell for you” (pg. 38, underlining in the original).
Not only is that FALSE teaching, it undermines that very nature of Jesus' atonement on the Cross. If I recall, one of his last words on the cross was "IT IS FINISHED"
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Want more?:
"We need to claim as much of that inheritance as we possibly can...One of the things you can do right now is speak positive things about your future right now."
(Joyce Meyer, "What Does Your Future Hold" May 21, 2004)
"I want us to think again for a minute in closing about this thing about making sure that we're not killing God's plan with negative words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
"If I speak death I'll eat death. If I speak life I'll eat life...I want you to say with me, 'I can destroy my life with my own words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
This is absurd to think that our words can kill a plan of an Almighty and Sovereign God. Is this not the height of arrogance to think that our words can kill what God wants to do?
More priceless nuggets:
"When Jesus was experiencing the most intense pressure of His life, He decided that it would be wise not to open His mouth. Why? I believe it was because He realized that in His humanity, He would have been tempted to do the same thing you and I are tempted to do—doubt, question God, complain, or say something negative."
(Joyce Meyer, Enjoying Everyday Life Magazine, "Crossing Over to the Other Side" May 2004)
"Did you know that you can change the very course of your life by the type of words you speak?"
(Joyce Meyer, Enjoying Everyday Life Magazine, "Think before You Speak" May 2004)
"My teaching this weekend as usual is not going to be doctrinally religious. It's going to be something that you can use in your everyday life."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 1 of 4 the "Mind")
"You know that if you send these offerings into the ministry your gonna help us to keep reaching out to hurting people all over the world. What you make happen for somebody else God will make happen for you. Sow a seed and God will meet your need."
(Joyce Meyer, "Enjoying Everyday Life," June 24, 2004)
"God does not need our money. The giving thing is not for Him, it's for us," Meyer told a Detroit audience in September. "I should not have to work to try to support myself."
(Article on Joyce Meyer, 11/17/2003, St. Louis Post Dispatch)
Doesn't the Apostles Creed say "He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead;"
So what was it that Joyce was saying that was not correct?
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RE: joyce meyer - 2/18/2011 9:54:05 AM
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Soxfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ruth181
Doesn't the Apostles Creed say "He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead;"
So what was it that Joyce was saying that was not correct?
Jesus went into Hades, where the faithful were, not hell, where the wicked are punished. Those in the word of faith cult, including Joyce Meyer do not believe in His victory the on the cross. Instead, they teach that it was not completed on the cross but rather in a battle in hell with the devil. This imaginary battle brings destruction to the gospel where Jesus REALLY conquered Satan and crushed Satan's head on the cross, not in hell.
If Jesus went to hell, then Jesus did not speak the truth by saying IT IS FINISHED. The death of Christ on the cross is then insufficient, not having the power by itself to save anyone.
It may make for a good Carman song, but it is a FALSE gospel
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RE: joyce meyer - 2/18/2011 9:58:14 AM
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Soxfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ruth181
Thank you Stephanie. Is that an organized group of some type, like the PTL used to be?
Without reading through 60 pages of posts, can you point me to one or two posts in this thread that summarize why some of you don't like Joyce Meyer? I have listened to her many times, I enjoy her teaching and have not heard her say anything that was off the wall. She was on Larry King and I think she did a good job. She is coming to near where I live this summer and I plan on attending her conference.
Are there any supporters of hers on this thread or should I start another one?
I can't find any posts that summarize why we don't like Joyce Meyer. Personally, I have never met her. She's probable a very nice woman.
However, there are hundreds of posts in this thread that explain in detail how she perverts the Word of God for personal and financial gain. Did you read the quotes by her in the post just above here?
I suggest you take some time to read throught te entire thread, especially if you plan on attending one of her conferences or worse, considering coughing over some money to her "ministry"
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If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you
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RE: joyce meyer - 2/18/2011 12:15:46 PM
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lw9
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quote:
Ruth181: Doesn't the Apostles Creed say "He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead;"
So what was it that Joyce was saying that was not correct?
Soxfan is absolutely correct in his Biblical explanation. The Bible itself has proven Joyce Meyers to be a false teacher and anti-Biblical.
Where does the Bible ever say that Jesus paid for our sins in hell?
Where does the Bible ever say Jesus was born again in hell?
It doesn't. Instead, the Bible teaches that His work was completed on the cross, and that He descended into Hades to bring the faithful with Him into heaven:
Jn 19:30 He said “It is finished!” And He bowed His head, and gave up His spirit.
Heb 7:27 ... who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.
Col 1:20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless
1 Pet 2:24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
1Pet 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19 through whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.
Eph 4:8 Therefore it says, “When He ascended on high, He led captive a host of captives, and He gave gifts to men.” 9 Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.
These are very critical points because the jesus that Joyce Meyers teaches is not the Jesus of the Holy Bible. She, like other Word of Faith teachers and leaders, has rejected the true Jesus Christ and His work on the cross.
quote:
Without reading through 60 pages of posts, can you point me to one or two posts in this thread that summarize why some of you don't like Joyce Meyer?
This thread really isn't about disliking Joyce Meyers, the person. It's about comparing what she says to scripture and warning others about her dangerously false teachings that lead people away from the truth and into deception.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 2/18/2011 12:23:43 PM >
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RE: joyce meyer - 2/18/2011 3:31:46 PM
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figmentPez
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ruth181
Doesn't the Apostles Creed say "He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead;"
So what was it that Joyce was saying that was not correct?
When the Apostle's Creed was translated, the English word "hell" had a broader meaning than it's modern usage. "Hell" in the Apostle's Creed simply means death, or the realm of the dead. The statement simply means that He suffered death. Later Protestant documents, like the Heidelberg Catechism have this to say on the matter:
quote:
44. Q. Why is there added: He descended into hell?
A. In my greatest sorrows and temptations I may be assured and comforted that my Lord Jesus Christ, by His unspeakable anguish, pain, terror, and agony, which He endured throughout all His sufferings[1] but especially on the cross, has delivered me from the anguish and torment of hell.[2]
[1] Ps. 18:5, 6; 116:3; Matt. 26:36-46; 27:45, 46; Heb. 5:7-10. [2] Is. 53
I'm referencing this creed not as proof that this view is correct, but to show that this is a prominent historical understanding of the Apostle's Creed, and that the idea that Jesus Christ actually went to Hell after His death on the cross is an addition made by the WOF movement in recent years, and most certainly does not reflect the Apostle's Creed as it was understood by those who translated it into English, or any of the many groups that have chosen to re-affirm it by keeping it as part of statements of faith.
The cited verses show that His sufferings were in the Garden of Gethsemane through to the cross, but not after. The full price of sin (that is, death) was paid by Christ, and that work was completed on the cross, not after.
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If you don't know who God is, then you can't know what He wants you to do. If your study of scripture focuses on who you are, before or above your study of who God is, then you're doing it wrong.
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RE: joyce meyer - 2/18/2011 3:38:31 PM
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WeSrv1Gd
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I like some of her teachings outside of her word of faith teachings. I've yet to see any financial statements from her ministry. I won't support any ministry that does not make it's financial statements available and transparent. One of the reasons I don't support TV Evangelists is that I am led to support my local church. At least at my local level I can personally know the leadership, who they surround themselves with, and see their financials.
With TV preachers, when you see a 60,000 square foot house with 13 bedrooms, 15 bathrooms, 3 heated indoor pools, etc. Well, you get the picture. How much of the excess goes to their pampering vs going to feed the homeless, help the poor, etc. Bigger question is if any of that is purchased from the tithes, offerings, donations, etc given to the ministry. I submit to you that those large houses could house a lot of homeless people and that most TV preachers wouldnt do such a thing.
I found an article about the tele evangelist lifestyles.
We need to look at what these folks are teaching. Is it portable to all the world? Teaching akin to jesus coming to earth just to make you wealthy, happy, and feel better about yourself are just too rampant from a lot of ministries these days.
< Message edited by Msud7 -- 2/18/2011 3:55:01 PM >
_____________________________
Rev. 21:5 And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new " And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."
The word of God: Believe it, Trust it, Try it
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RE: joyce meyer - 2/18/2011 9:58:33 PM
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WeSrv1Gd
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After thinking about this a bit, I just decided for me to appreciate what she is doing for spreading the gospel over the world. I am not in God's place to judge her heart or motives....except when she talks along the lines of the word of faith movement.
I think a lot of ministers should think more about how they live in a material manner and if it would be a stumbling block to many unsaved or cause some new christians to fall in their walk with the lord.
_____________________________
Rev. 21:5 And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new " And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."
The word of God: Believe it, Trust it, Try it
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RE: joyce meyer - 2/19/2011 1:31:05 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 2030
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quote:
After thinking about this a bit, I just decided for me to appreciate what she is doing for spreading the gospel over the world. I am not in God's place to judge her heart or motives....except when she talks along the lines of the word of faith movement.
Right. Well we'll just throw out all the NT teaching that tells us to discern, judge and
expose the lies.
When people who express the humanistic view that no Christian has the right to judge
or discern, they reflect an incorrect interpretation of the words of Christ and the authors
of the NT, whom we believe wrote under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit
Joyce Meyer is NOT spreading the gospel according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John
Joyce Meyer is spreading the gospel according to HER
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RE: joyce meyer - 2/26/2011 11:55:16 AM
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Anastamotic
Posts: 98
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ruth181
Doesn't the Apostles Creed say "He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead;"
So what was it that Joyce was saying that was not correct?
Jesus went into Hades, where the faithful were, not hell, where the wicked are punished. Those in the word of faith cult, including Joyce Meyer do not believe in His victory the on the cross. Instead, they teach that it was not completed on the cross but rather in a battle in hell with the devil. This imaginary battle brings destruction to the gospel where Jesus REALLY conquered Satan and crushed Satan's head on the cross, not in hell.
If Jesus went to hell, then Jesus did not speak the truth by saying IT IS FINISHED. The death of Christ on the cross is then insufficient, not having the power by itself to save anyone.
That would depend on what Jesus was saying was finished. His overall mission was certainly not finished because he still had work to do both in Hell and in Heaven ( purifying the holy instruments of heaven ).
The righteous dead went to Paradise but Jesus had the sins of the world upon him i.e. unrighteousnesses.
This use of the word "cult" is interesting. It is not a scriptural word in the way that it is used. This means it must be an invention of tradition. it is nonconstructive and accomplishes nothing.
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RE: joyce meyer - 2/26/2011 11:56:42 AM
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Anastamotic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
quote:
After thinking about this a bit, I just decided for me to appreciate what she is doing for spreading the gospel over the world. I am not in God's place to judge her heart or motives....except when she talks along the lines of the word of faith movement.
Joyce Meyer is NOT spreading the gospel according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John
Joyce Meyer is spreading the gospel according to HER
Does traditional Christianism spread the Gospel according to the Church of Acts?
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RE: joyce meyer - 2/26/2011 12:51:56 PM
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Little_1
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I like Joyce Meyer and have been challenged by many of her straight to the point teachings. However, on one subject I have found her teaching extremely dangerous.
Personal testimony:
I watched a programme where she seemed to rebuke the devil left, right and centre. Not a wise thing to do as I now know from experience. I watched her boldness and copied! I challenged the devil to do his worst (how ignorant was I?) because I said I was not afraid of him and a few days later, my husband was involved in a serious accident in which a young person died. We have since gone through various ordeals and trials as a result of the accident and it has been horrendous. Three and a half years later, and it is still not over... not to mention what the family of the deceased child is going through.
I would strongly advise anyone NOT to tempt the devil or to openly challenge him because he is a mighty being which even the Archangel Michael would not dare challenge but instead told him "the Lord rebuke you".
Although I believe Joyce was way out of her depth rebuking the devil, I will say that many of her books are excellent... including Battlefield of the Mind and Managing Your Emotions.
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Each Card Tells A Story
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RE: joyce meyer - 2/26/2011 3:47:52 PM
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SamsonUSA
Posts: 1850
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quote:
I like some of her teachings outside of her word of faith teachings.
A quick word of caution friend. Her WOF teachings not only define who she believes God is , they also intrinsically define who she is.
To say you like some of her teachings outside of her WOF teachings is comparable to saying you like some of Joseph Rutherford's teachings outside of his Watchtower Society teachings.
You cannot differentiate between the two, since their words define the very essence of what lies inside their heart.
"The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart. (Luke 6:45)
_____________________________
"Now, therefore, our God, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who keeps covenant and steadfast love, let not all the hardship seem little to you that has come upon us...." Nehemiah 9:32
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RE: joyce meyer - 2/27/2011 9:59:07 AM
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loveydoveysmom
Posts: 1600
Joined: 1/19/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Little_1
I like Joyce Meyer and have been challenged by many of her straight to the point teachings. However, on one subject I have found her teaching extremely dangerous.
Personal testimony:
I watched a programme where she seemed to rebuke the devil left, right and centre. Not a wise thing to do as I now know from experience. I watched her boldness and copied! I challenged the devil to do his worst (how ignorant was I?) because I said I was not afraid of him and a few days later, my husband was involved in a serious accident in which a young person died. We have since gone through various ordeals and trials as a result of the accident and it has been horrendous. Three and a half years later, and it is still not over... not to mention what the family of the deceased child is going through.
I would strongly advise anyone NOT to tempt the devil or to openly challenge him because he is a mighty being which even the Archangel Michael would not dare challenge but instead told him "the Lord rebuke you".
Although I believe Joyce was way out of her depth rebuking the devil, I will say that many of her books are excellent... including Battlefield of the Mind and Managing Your Emotions.
This post saddens me.  I'm sorry for the pain and suffering in your lives. My deepest sympathies to you and your family and the other family involved.
We are to approach the devil without provocation. The Bible does not give Christians the authority to rebuke the Devil, but to resist him.
James 4:7:
"submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."
Zechariah 3:2 tells us that it is the Lord who rebukes Satan.
Even Michael, one of the most powerful of the angels, did not dare to accuse Satan, but rather said "The Lord rebuke you" (Jude 1:9)
In response to Satan's attacks, a Christian should hide under the covering of Christ. Instead of focusing on defeating the devil, we should focus on following Christ
Hebrews 12:2:
And trust that He will defeat the forces of evil."
I don't think for one second your prayer provoking Satan had anything to do with the accident. You need not feel any guilt.
What I do think is Joyce Meyer rebuking the devil left and right is sinful, false teaching and a crime against God.
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RE: joyce meyer - 2/27/2011 11:12:58 AM
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solarflare
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quote:
Does traditional Christianism spread the Gospel according to the Church of Acts?
This thread is about Joyce Meyers
Deflecting the topic, means nothing
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RE: joyce meyer - 3/1/2011 12:02:28 PM
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Anastamotic
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The devil is a mighty being?
Not the devil i know, there must be more than one out there.
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RE: joyce meyer - 3/1/2011 6:59:48 PM
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Kath
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I have deleted a bunch of posts for both TOS 6 and 9.
It might be a good idea to reread the Terms of Service and adjust your posting style accordingly. Thank you.
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